on Obama vs. McCain

This blog is a copied chat I had with a family member this morning on the subject of the Presidential race. I feel like Christians in general feel like you have to be Republican and I disagree with that adamantly. Although most of my views expressed follow more conservative slants, I am pretty much an Independent and want to choose the right leader based on the person and issues involved, not the party lines. Enjoy!

Heidi: I’m not sure if I’m registered to vote

A: Heidi Rachelle! you should be, this will be the election of the century! you can probably go online and do it,

Heidi: Yes, with candidates I don’t like! I guess this is about preserving our way of life though… about deciding if we want to continue to be a free market capitalistic govt. or become socialist..

A: haha

Heidi: I thought you’d like that

A: so dramatic. but i understand what your saying, you just need to defend the free world before we be neo nazi’s
why continue the trend that hasn’t worked the last 8 years?economy…sucks….international relations…sucks…etc etc
I have actually been reading more about Libertarian views…pretty interesting

Heidi: I know, I know! But I feel like John McCain is a democrat at heart and I want to vote democratic, not republician or, for that matter, socialist. However, as the campaign has gone on Obama has become increasingly conservative…
I’m very interested in Libertarian, what do you like about that?

A: smaller government

Heidi: I’d support that actually, I think big govt. is part of the problem

A: mccain as a person though, don’t think he can live through his first term (he will be 74 then) and then palin- please, don’t get me started

Heidi: you don’t like her? her policies? or do you just think her voice is annoying? (aka Hillary Clinton)

A: i feel like since the bush administration (patriot act, war in iraq) our country is slowing giving up our first amendment rights for safety, mccain will continue that trend
palin- experience?? knowledge? foreign relations? i mean, did she win some sort of contest or something?
i don’t relate to soccer mom/beauty queens sorry- hockey mom to be specific

Heidi: so you really think Obama has more experience? I don’t. I think she is annoying, but I like what she has to say

A: like what?
and obama sat on the senate foreign relations committee

Heidi: like what, what? like being a governer doesn’t suddenly qualify someone to be president?

A: govenor, senator, what has she done that he doesn’t beside be a local yokel hometown mayor?

Heidi: I’m not saying “wow! she is so much MORE qualified than Obama” I’m saying that I don’t think you can compare them and if you do, their experience is very simular.
I don’t think either one of them is more qualified than the other based on experience

A: well i think illinois deals with much more prevalent issues than alaska freaking boondocks of american i mean, you can smoke pot there legally
i think what you need to ask yourself is how radical a change this country needs

Heidi: If Obama would change his stance on partial birth abortions (sticking scissors in a baby’s head after they could be living outside the uterus) I’d prob. have different feelings. They have baby death rooms, where they put a baby that could live on a shelf to die. Obama supports that kind of “rights” for a woman which I find sickening. However great he may be, that fact turns me off so greatly that I can’t see past it and I don’t WANT to.
That is where I’m stuck.
I think Obama and Palin are equally qualified. What about Biden?? I dont have time to research him, tell me about him.

A: i think that abortion “rights” are misconstrued. like those women out there that want abortions are sex in the city carrie-ites who sleep around and don’t want the inconvenience of an unwanted child…the women who do have abortions are making a decision they don’t want to, their not out celebrating it, leaving the next morning to join friends for cocktails. i read a great article that i’ll send to you on abortion rights. i myself, am saddened by abortion, but working in the social work field i can’t help but look at both sides of the issues, Brothers have impregnated their Sisters, its sad and i agree that its not right, but something to look at a bit more deeply

Heidi: I think I agree with you and would be very interested in reading your article. The fact that I’m talking about is PARTIAL birth abortions, not just ones done in the first trimester. The abortions when the woman in in her 3rd trimester and the baby could live outside. That’s my problem with it. and Obama’s quote “I don’t want my daugher PUNISHED with a baby b/c she makes a mistake!” well, I’m sorry that he feels an inconvenient baby when someone is having sex is a Punishment.

A: i definitely agree that it is sad, and i too feel wrong in defending views like that. but what is the bigger picture? what are our civil liberties? we have a choice to own guns, even a stash of them. but women are told they cannot make decisions about their bodies. i would never choose abortion. but who are these people that are? what lives are they living? that’s what i want to know. i can’t say that i support obama at all on his partial birth abortion views. but am i going to (wrongly) vote on ONE issue? I feel like that’s what i did when i voted for bush the first term…and i feel i made a drastic mistake in one issue voting…obama also has done some great work with planned parenthood…is a balance allowable? I don’t know…still questions i’m pondering. i still cannot say definitively if I’ll vote for Obama, but i can say that I will NOT vote for McCain!

A: i like that obama was a civil rights lawyer too
and how can republicans in one breath say they value all life but allow the death penalty to exist? is that a double standard?

No, I don’t think it’s a double standard. I think valuing innocent, unprotected life is above all what God would do. Yes, I’m using the “God” card!! :) I don’t think in any way that abortion is a “women’s rights” issue, I think that telling someone they can’t kill a baby no matter now inconvenient it is is just the MORAL and right thing to do. You can always come up with exceptions, but does the baby deserve to die just because it’s Father is also it’s uncle??? and Yes, if someone kills someone, according to any standard in probably almost every religion, that person deserves death. I think innocent vs. guilty is such a different matter!

A: but some people have died on death row weren’t guilty, are we, as imperfect humans so presumptuous to take life as we see fit?
i dont agree with abortion but i want to vote on more than one issue, like a balancing scale

Heidi: yes. we’re most def. not perfect as humans, but valuing unprotected human life is, I think, different than proceting adult criminals. They had the right to choose for themselves the path they went down. I think that thinking you’re voting on multiple issues, which is good, like a scale you said, and I am too. Everyone I have talked to about abortion issues eventually says what you are saying, about “balance” like I’m not. Or maybe I’m being defensive?? I am voting on a lot of issues too. I feel morally that NOT choosing to support innocent, unprotected human lives is WRONG. I think as Christians in today’s culture, that we are numbed down to the horror that is abortion. I was until I had Summit for Pete’s Sake! Now, it’s like the Holocaust is happening on our own country but we look the other way and focus on other issues! I’ve never been fired up for this before, so it’s still strange to me being “that person”.

A: I wanted you to know that i don’t support abortion, and certainly not partial birth abortion. but, like i was saying about the balacing scales i want to look at the bigger picture. The issues I am valuing is the preservation of life domestically and overseas. How many unwanted births are being aborted vs. how many men and women that have lost their lives in Iraq–fighting a war that has been cloudy from the beginning. Should we be pursuing the preservation of life everywhere? what about the women/men/children that are being slaughtered in the genocide in Darfur? I’ve read Obama’s stance on it and I can’t say I’ve read mccains. what about the people dying of AIDS in Africa and southeast asia? if we are so adament about preserving lives why are we better at foreign relations? The Holocaust is happening worldwide. I think if we’re going to pull the “God card” :) that we should also look at our FAILURE at foriegn relations. The US has entered war in Iraq illegally. Pre-emptive strike is illegal in international courts. God wants to preserve life worldwide. have we looked at the bigger picture in foreign relations in the past 8 years? These are the type of issues I am saying we need to balance. Preserve unwanted births, preserve lives..everywhere. And like we were saying before, who are these women that are getting abortions? No woman WANTS to kill a life. She is not proud of it. What are the socio-economic reasons that have lead her to decide on abortion? Like I was saying with a bigger picture, how can we heal america so that is not an obvious choice for her? Abortion will always exist whether its legal or not, whether its safe or not. That fact is undeniable. So, if we can’t stop that it happens…why not try to stop the source? The mother…the father…the conditions they’re living in…. How can we restore the economy, society, worldview, so that it does reflect God’s desires. We all know that God isn’t a white republican or a black democrat. we each need to make a personal choice on who we support, and why. What will this candidate do for me? what will this candidate do for our economy? and being the leader of the free world…what will this candidate do for our world?

  • Kent and Marietta McClure

    I don’t know who you were having this discussion with, but the arguments that they were presenting seem contradictory. They argued that smoking pot in Alaska is crazy, but letting out-of-the-womb children die in a closet in Illinois seem tolerable when the purpose is to support a presidental candidate. The former is murder, so should we convict the killer as we would any other criminal? Maybe they deserve the death penalty for killing their own child! Wow, what an arguement that idea could stir up!
    The examples could go on forever. Both sides of the isle have been jaded, but you must begin to live your life with a clear conscience.
    For me, I start with my heart, which belongs to Jesus. And myself is the ONLY person I can speak for. Although voicing my opinion always makes me feel as though I am voicing the opinion of many! :)

  • David and Katy

    interesting stuff!

  • Trevor

    sure, we should do all kinds of other things, the kinds of things that reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies. that’s an entirely separate issue from whether abortion should be legal.

    what does the fact that no woman WANTS to kill her baby have to do with whether killing them should be illegal? what does the fact that killings will always happen have to do with it? EVERY law we have gets broken; otherwise we wouldn’t need the laws! either you think things that are wrong should be illegal, or you think laws should be made for the theoretical pragmatic “greatest good/least evil”. if the latter, then the question pretty much boils down to which you think is the lesser evil: an unwanted birth or an abortion.

    abortion rarely gets a real, honest discussion. both sides are generally either disingenuous or else somewhat deluded. the bible doesn’t seem to put fetuses on the same level as other people (for the most part fetuses didn’t seem to be something they gave much thought to back then), and neither do we, which is probably a big part of why abortion is legal now. most pro-life people don’t really believe that abortion is tantamount to murder and deserving of the same punishment (imagine sentencing a doctor to lethal injection for performing an abortion). but if not murder, what is it? a slippery slope down to “well, i’m not FOR it, but we should legislate morality” and something you know you ought to avoid if possible, like going into debt.

    as for mccain’s life expectancy, give me a break. the odds of a president living through a term have more to do with their odds of being assassinated than their age. in other words, biden would be about as likely to take over the reins from obama as palin would from mccain. mccain survived as a POW so he’s clearly tough, but hey, if you really think mccain is so unlikely to last 48 months, then who knows, maybe he’ll just keel over sometime in the next coupld of months and make the election a lot less complicated.

    one thing that’s really funny is the 90% that kept getting mentioned a few weeks ago as the rate at which mccain voted “with bush”. as if mccain is a little bush clone. the fact is that most of the senate votes together on most issues. probably obama voted “with bush” 80% of the time, and the average democrat 85% and the average republican 99%. in reality mccain is less like bush than most in congress of either party. how many candidates would have consided choosing and independent democrat as their running mate?

  • The Clarks

    Yes, interesting! Politics intrigue me. Through conversations like these, my own personal knowledge and opinions have formed more. I still feel really ignorant and without time to do the research I want. Thanks for your input peeps! I am becoming more and more conservative the longer this election lasts! :) (Ben will like that!)